Are Aliens sentient?

Extrocomp · 03-07-2006, 12:00 AM

The warrior/drones are probably not sentient but I think the Queen might be. She does seem to be a good deal more intelligent. The Queen doesn't seem to have any interests in life besides surviving and reproducing but are cultural and intellectual pursuits really the trademarks of sentience? Would the Queen be able to talk if it had human vocal cords and if it could, would it have anything to say to say to its prey?

What do you guys think?

SM · 03-07-2006, 05:35 PM

Depends on how you'd define sentience I suppose.

Off the top of my head I think their most intelligent would be setting the trap for Elgyn, but beyond that it's more highly evolved predatory instinct. Even the Queen.

O'Bannon originally said that Aliens were beings that lived for a couple of centuries, and became highly intelligent, cultural and artistic once they grew out of their bloodsoaked early life.

Extrocomp · 03-07-2006, 10:17 PM

The Queen has done other intelligent things. The scene where Ripley first meets Queen comes to mind. After Ripley burns an egg several warriors come after her, but after Ripley points her flamethrower at the other eggs, the Queen understands that Ripley is holding her eggs hostage and decides that the best course of action would be to make the warriors withdraw, rather than the obvious thing to do, which is for the warriors to pounce on Ripley before she can fire.

Then the Queen uses an elevator to escape the colony and boards the dropship. This may mean that she realizes the colony is going to blow or she could've just wanted revenge against Ripley. The fact that she carries a Queen Egg with her means that she anticipated that she may not survive the upcoming battle.

Then there's the issue of why Ripley 8 has memories of being Ellen Ripley. Her DNA was mixed with the Queen's, which includes genetic memory. However, her memories are Ripley's and not the Queen's, which means the original Queen embryo must've incorporated Ripley's memories into its own DNA. And I can think of no other purpose for that except to understand the mind of her prey in detail.

SM · 03-08-2006, 12:28 AM

The things you've described could still be down to basic animal instinct. Animals can be trained to do certain things; Aliens simply learn for themselves much quicker. Like Ash said, most animals retreat from fire. Queenie knows fire = bad.

Something else just sprung to mind - cutting the power to Ops (if it was indeed deliberate, and I think it was). It's a natural progression from Aliens generally attacking from the shadows because they know their prey don't see too good in the dark, and are therefore at a disadvantage. It could've very well been planning to attack Ripley, Parker and Brett in the dark by knocking out 12 module which Parker and Brett claim to have fixed.

Extrocomp · 03-08-2006, 12:43 AM

I don't think cutting power is a sign of intelligence. It could've been by accident. I remember watching a movie called Tremors 2, where the monsters chewed through the car engine and destroyed the communications tower so the main characters couldn't escape or call for help. It turned out that the monsters were blind and deaf, they hunted by sensing heat. They must've mistaken the engine and the tower for food and in the words of one of the characters, "they were acting so smart because they were so damn stupid".

Perhaps the Aliens eat wiring and other technologies. They are partly silicon-based and they had to have eaten something to grow to their full size.

Anyway, perhaps asking if their sentient was a bad question because sentience is so hard to define. But how smart is the Queen? Is she smarter than a dolphin? What about a chimp? Apes can be taught basic symbolic languages so if an Alien Queen is smarter than the lot of them, she may be considered sentient, although not AS sentient as a human.

X1M43 · 03-08-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

O'Bannon originally said that Aliens were beings that lived for a couple of centuries, and became highly intelligent, cultural and artistic once they grew out of their bloodsoaked early life.

What's your source? I'm curious because Ridley Scott has said he envisioned the creatures as having very short lifespans...

[AVPW]Corpral Hic · 03-08-2006, 03:19 PM

Wasnt it something to do with original pyramid concept?

SM · 03-08-2006, 04:25 PM

Yeah.

The source is Ron Cobb who says that's how O'Bannon originally explained the life cycle. The 24 hour thing came later on.

Quote:

I don't think cutting power is a sign of intelligence. It could've been by accident.

I find it way too convenient for it to have happened by accident. Of course it's possible, I just don't buy it personally.

[AVPW]Corpral Hic · 03-09-2006, 01:52 AM

I'm with SM. I think the idea was to show that the Aliens had intelligence by cutting the power. Same goes for the Queen later.

azimaith · 03-09-2006, 08:06 AM

I'd take sentience as being self aware, which I think aliens are, but only in the absence of the queen.

As for cutting the power, we've been over this a million times. First off, the aliens were moving through the ceiling where the wiring was. You move 20 spiky clawed bodies through a wire filled area you may amazingly cause some damage.

Second, the power generator IE, the reactor, was on its way to going critical. It would make sense for the power to go out.

And finally, the most important thing to remember is that *all* the power went out in the entire area, for the aliens to cut the power to several corridors/rooms they would need to sever a myriad of connections (and survive the voltage flowing through them) to get this to work.

No, evidence points to the reactor failure causing the power to fail.

Are aliens intelligent to a degree? Yes.
Are aliens born with a degree in electrical engineering.
Hell no.

Extrocomp · 03-09-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azimaith
I'd take sentience as being self aware, which I think aliens are, but only in the absence of the queen.

Sentience is self awareness AND intelligence so I'm not sure about warrior aliens being sentient in the absence of the Queen. However, you are most definitely right about aliens not being self aware when the Queen is present, given how so many jumped into the sentry guns' line of fire. However it does suggest that either they or the Queen that sent them is/are intelligent because it implies that they knew that the guns would eventually run out of ammo.

SM · 03-09-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

we've been over this a million times

And as you've shown there's no definitive answer. The film quite clearly leaves this wide open to interpretation. I still think it's overly convenient - especially the bit about the power miraculously just dropping out only to the Ops/ Medical wing seconds before the Aliens attack.

Quote:

However it does suggest that either they or the Queen that sent them is/are intelligent because it implies that they knew that the guns would eventually run out of ammo.

The guns is an interesting debate. Some people see it as evidence of them being mindlessly stupid and remotely controlled by the Queen.

And yet we can see no bodies in the level 2 approach corridors and there's still literally dozens left to attack Ops, then apparently even more approaching Ripley and Hicks while they're trying to get Newt in the sub level.

It's always been my opinion that after the initial encounter in the service tunnel and the fact the guns ran dry in a matter of seconds, told the Aliens that if they encountered them again the same thing would happen. I think they probably lost more of their number in the tunnel, but the guns ran out quickly. Then lost less on level 2 where there was more cover, and they were darting from one spot of cover to another. But they had more options on level 2 whereas in the tunnel they had none, so they got to a point where they thought - bugger this, there must be another way in. And there was. Several.

azimaith · 03-09-2006, 07:24 PM

I personally ascribe to the theory that it was a distraction. You don't see more than 1 body in that corridor, all you hear is screeching and then some flashes of a couple aliens biting the dust.

While some aliens did this the rest crept through the ceiling and surrounded the marines who were too busy watching the ammo counters go.

After all, if the guns hadn't gone off, the marines probably wouldn't have just assumed they got through the barricades and started welding up the doors. Instead they would know they bypassed it completely, meaning that the aliens are definately coming through some place they didn't expect.

But thats just me.

Daemos · 03-13-2006, 10:19 AM

Of course they are! I think their capacity to learn is extremely high.

@SM

O'Bannon's "theory" is a conclusion I actually reached on my own based on what I saw in the movies to be honest.

SM · 03-14-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote:

I think their capacity to learn is extremely high.

"Fast learner". That goes without saying.

Sector70599 · 03-17-2006, 09:58 AM

All I know is that they are capable of adapting to virtually any environment.

J A Eyers · 03-20-2006, 10:41 AM

Moving to BCT.

Maitreya · 03-21-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SM
Depends on how you'd define sentience I suppose.

Off the top of my head I think their most intelligent would be setting the trap for Elgyn, but beyond that it's more highly evolved predatory instinct. Even the Queen.

O'Bannon originally said that Aliens were beings that lived for a couple of centuries, and became highly intelligent, cultural and artistic once they grew out of their bloodsoaked early life.

Just for the sake of saying this:
Oh my fucking god I hope that never happens in a sequal.
JP3 all over again, man....

*crawls into a fetal position*

Kratos · 03-21-2006, 11:35 PM

Actions such as calling off the attack on Ripley after Ripley threatens the eggs show that the Queen is very intelligent and is able to understand actions and their consequences without having had the benefit of being in that situation before - So we can't blame her actions on conditioning.
And I'll get disagreement on this, but I also believe that the Queen followed Ripley to the extent she did for revenge. Why take that exact route and follow Ripley so far instead of relocating to a safer spot and reestablishing the nest while the other adults took care of Ripley?
Sorry but to me, the Queen's actions point STRAIGHT at her being fully sentient. Very few of her actions make any sense otherwise.

SM · 03-22-2006, 12:39 AM

I buy the revenge thing (you could argue she knew the AP Station was going to go up - but if she did why didn't bug out a LOT earlier?), but I don't buy she was smart enough to work the elevator, as some people argue.

The elevators default position was dock 7 where Bishop landed the dropship. I reckon she was just along for the ride in the second lift that Ripley called.

Kratos · 03-22-2006, 02:23 AM

Yeah, I don't figure she was working the elevator either. Don't get me wrong, I think she would be fully capable of using the elevator, but only after playing with one or seeing it used.

Bender · 03-24-2006, 06:43 AM

Of course they are sentient. Duh.

The bug in the first movie knew enough to get into the Narcissus ahead of Ripley.
The bugs in Aliens knew enough to use the false ceiling rather than battering their way through the walls.
Regarding cutting the power, one interesting suggestion is that not only might they have cut the power but they might do it regularly.
Newt says they hunt at night. They must do that because they have an advantage at night and they might easily have realised that electricity negates that advantage.
They wouldn't need to turn the generator on and off. It's standard for that sort of thing to have self-resetting trips. It'd be easy for them to find out that dunking a bare cable in a pool of water would make the base go dark for an hour.

Moving on, in A3 the bug managed to take out a bunch of key figures with ruthless efficiency.

In AR the bug learns to be docile to avoid the chiller as well as zapping Elgyn

In AvP Grid is not only intelligent but he's innovative, sneaky and resourceful.

As for the difference between animal-cunning and "sentience", you could argue about that forever.
It's kinda context specific. I mean, I'm sure an enlightened alien might suggest that our behaviour, polluting our environment, killing each other and working for money, isn't sentient behaviour.

I can vouch for what SM says about the bugs being a cultured species too. It was suggested that the bug is supposed to be scared, lonely and ignorant.
Maybe they're supposed to be part of some elite royal guard on their home planet but all the ones we've ever seen have either been from the Derelict or slaves for the Preds.
The ones we've seen are the equivalents of cave-men or the humans in Planet of the Apes.

Kratos · 03-24-2006, 12:06 PM

Using the bugs from A:R as an example is a poor choice since they weren't purely alien.

Bender · 03-24-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kratos
Using the bugs from A:R as an example is a poor choice since they weren't purely alien.

Given that they all act with a similar level of intelligence and problem-solving ability throughout all the movies that's hardly a valid reason to suggest my suggestion is invalid.

Kratos · 03-24-2006, 02:43 PM

It is a very good reason to not use the aliens in A:R as examples of the race as a whole. They were not the aliens from the previous movies, they were genetically more human to the point that psychological and physical changes occurred as a result.
Psychologically it was hinted that they had much more human thought processes. The first time we see this is when the trio of aliens escape from their cage. One of the aliens appears to 'argue' with the other two, apparently about their choice of which to kill in order to escape. His thrashing and screaming as he died could be interpreted as an attempt to fight back or fight off the other two.
The second indication of this is, after their escape, the two escaped aliens wait and draw the scientist who had captured them and caused them pain into the cage, and then kill him, rather than running to immediately free the rest of the captive aliens.
Another example is the way one alien chose to dispose of the guard who entered his cell. Rather than merely encapacitating the guard as a host or killing him for food, the alien uses the same device that had caused it pain.
Yet another example lies in the traps set by the aliens throughout the film. Elgyn and the gun being the best example. The gun had obviously been placed there to draw a human within striking distance of the alien that placed it.
The aliens also 'herded' the crew of the Betty and Ripley towards a room full of eggs.
None of these are actions that are ever observed in the other movies.
The physical changes included a softer, fleshier appearance and an apparent weakness of the 'exoskeleton', the shortening of the head providing an even more human appearance, a change in coloration, and other small physical changes.

The aliens of A:R were so far removed from the aliens of previous movies that using them to draw conclusions on the race as a whole would be like using A:R Ripley to draw conclusions about the human race.

Bender · 03-26-2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kratos

Psychologically it was hinted that they had much more human thought processes. The first time we see this is when the trio of aliens escape from their cage. One of the aliens appears to 'argue' with the other two, apparently about their choice of which to kill in order to escape. His thrashing and screaming as he died could be interpreted as an attempt to fight back or fight off the other two.
The second indication of this is, after their escape, the two escaped aliens wait and draw the scientist who had captured them and caused them pain into the cage, and then kill him, rather than running to immediately free the rest of the captive aliens.
Another example is the way one alien chose to dispose of the guard who entered his cell. Rather than merely encapacitating the guard as a host or killing him for food, the alien uses the same device that had caused it pain.
Yet another example lies in the traps set by the aliens throughout the film. Elgyn and the gun being the best example. The gun had obviously been placed there to draw a human within striking distance of the alien that placed it.
The aliens also 'herded' the crew of the Betty and Ripley towards a room full of eggs.
None of these are actions that are ever observed in the other movies.
The physical changes included a softer, fleshier appearance and an apparent weakness of the 'exoskeleton', the shortening of the head providing an even more human appearance, a change in coloration, and other small physical changes.

The aliens of A:R were so far removed from the aliens of previous movies that using them to draw conclusions on the race as a whole would be like using A:R Ripley to draw conclusions about the human race.

I don't really see where you're getting that from.

You're making the assumption that the AR bugs did stuff differently to the other bugs without anything to back it up. You haven't actually compared similar events in one movie to another.

What you're doing is comparing one human who's taking a shit to another human who isn't and concluding that they're a different species.

Personally, I always figured that the DNA crossover was between Ripley and the Queen, rather than the drones.
You see Ripley talking about how she can feel the Queen. You never hear her talk about being able to sense the drones, or have any empathy with them.

When you look at the way Grid acts in AvP, the efficient way Skull hunts in ALIEN, the problem-solving and traps in ALIENS and the way Spike takes out most of the authority figuresd in A3 I don't think the bugs in AR show any vastly increased intelligence or sentience.

Besides that, even if you discount AR entirely, the evidence of the other films shows that the bugs are quite capable of sentient behaviour.

Kratos · 03-26-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bender
I don't really see where you're getting that from.

You're making the assumption that the AR bugs did stuff differently to the other bugs without anything to back it up. You haven't actually compared similar events in one movie to another.

Show me one case where the drones were vindictive or vengeful in the other movies.
Show me one case where an alien used equipment to kill a human instead of capturing it or eating it.
Show me one case where the aliens used human equipment to set a trap - And don't say the alien in Alien going to the Narcissus.
Show me one case where the aliens didn't work together smoothly or fought each other.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bender
What you're doing is comparing one human who's taking a shit to another human who isn't and concluding that they're a different species.

No, what I'm doing is comparing a pure species to a hybridization and concluding they are not the same. A zebra/horse hybrid is neither a zebra nor a horse. A horse/donkey hybrid is neither a horse nor a donkey. A camel/llama hybrid is neither a camel nor a donkey.
So you want to tell me that an alien/human hybrid is an alien or a human, whichever is more convenient?
I am never going to agree with that.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bender
Personally, I always figured that the DNA crossover was between Ripley and the Queen, rather than the drones.
You see Ripley talking about how she can feel the Queen. You never hear her talk about being able to sense the drones, or have any empathy with them.

Wrong. At several points in the movie she stops and says things like "I can feel them." or "They're close." In fact that's what led to the viper pit scene. You also seem to be forgetting the scene afterwards where she almost makes out with a drone. I think it's safe to say those two appeared to come to an 'understanding' rather quickly.
Also a reproducing hybrid would not spawn animals that are genetically the same as one of the parent species. Hybrids that breed create more of the hybrid, or even another hybrid - the Newborn, in this case. The Queen did both.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bender
When you look at the way Grid acts in AvP, the efficient way Skull hunts in ALIEN, the problem-solving and traps in ALIENS and the way Spike takes out most of the authority figuresd in A3 I don't think the bugs in AR show any vastly increased intelligence or sentience.

I did not say the aliens in A:R had INCREASED intelligence or sentience. I said that they had, through the genetic hybridization with a human, picked up on human thought patterns and emotions. Something NO alien in any movie beforehand had EVER evinced.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bender
Besides that, even if you discount AR entirely, the evidence of the other films shows that the bugs are quite capable of sentient behaviour.

At what point was I arguing that the drones aren't sentient or are incapable of sentient behaviour? I believe thus far the only comments I've had on the sentience of the aliens were on the Queen.
I'm saying that the aliens in A:R shouldn't be used as examples when talking about the rest of the species because they aren't the same aliens that were in Alien or Aliens and are only a valid example when talking about the hybrids themselves.
A scientist doesn't study ligers, leapons or tigons and then begin to say that all of his observances are just as valid when talking about lions, tigers, or leopards. They are all different animals and can't just be lumped together with the assumption "Hey, they're all the same thing."
And neither can the aliens and the A:R aliens.

Bender · 03-26-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kratos
Show me one case where the drones were vindictive or vengeful in the other movies.
Show me one case where an alien used equipment to kill a human instead of capturing it or eating it.
Show me one case where the aliens used human equipment to set a trap - And don't say the alien in Alien going to the Narcissus.
Show me one case where the aliens didn't work together smoothly or fought each other.

No, what I'm doing is comparing a pure species to a hybridization and concluding they are not the same. A zebra/horse hybrid is neither a zebra nor a horse. A horse/donkey hybrid is neither a horse nor a donkey. A camel/llama hybrid is neither a camel nor a donkey.
So you want to tell me that an alien/human hybrid is an alien or a human, whichever is more convenient?
I am never going to agree with that.

Wrong. At several points in the movie she stops and says things like "I can feel them." or "They're close." In fact that's what led to the viper pit scene. You also seem to be forgetting the scene afterwards where she almost makes out with a drone. I think it's safe to say those two appeared to come to an 'understanding' rather quickly.
Also a reproducing hybrid would not spawn animals that are genetically the same as one of the parent species. Hybrids that breed create more of the hybrid, or even another hybrid - the Newborn, in this case. The Queen did both.

I did not say the aliens in A:R had INCREASED intelligence or sentience. I said that they had, through the genetic hybridization with a human, picked up on human thought patterns and emotions. Something NO alien in any movie beforehand had EVER evinced.

At what point was I arguing that the drones aren't sentient or are incapable of sentient behaviour? I believe thus far the only comments I've had on the sentience of the aliens were on the Queen.
I'm saying that the aliens in A:R shouldn't be used as examples when talking about the rest of the species because they aren't the same aliens that were in Alien or Aliens and are only a valid example when talking about the hybrids themselves.
A scientist doesn't study ligers, leapons or tigons and then begin to say that all of his observances are just as valid when talking about lions, tigers, or leopards. They are all different animals and can't just be lumped together with the assumption "Hey, they're all the same thing."
And neither can the aliens and the A:R aliens.

And breathe.

The thread title is "Are Aliens sentient?"

I guess we can conclude the answer is a yes then?

Kratos · 03-26-2006, 06:11 PM

It just bugs me that so many people use examples from A:R when talking about the species as a whole and conveniently forget that the aliens in A:R are fundamentally different from the ones in the previous movies both mentally and physically. Pet peeve.

I think that the aliens are as sentient and intelligent as they feel they need to be.

SM · 03-26-2006, 09:01 PM

I don't generally regard the Auriga Aliens as being much different, personally. The Queen certainly but not the adults as such.

03-07-2006, 12:00 AM	#1
Extrocomp Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 168	Are Aliens sentient? The warrior/drones are probably not sentient but I think the Queen might be. She does seem to be a good deal more intelligent. The Queen doesn't seem to have any interests in life besides surviving and reproducing but are cultural and intellectual pursuits really the trademarks of sentience? Would the Queen be able to talk if it had human vocal cords and if it could, would it have anything to say to say to its prey? What do you guys think?

03-08-2006, 12:43 AM	#5
Extrocomp Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 168	I don't think cutting power is a sign of intelligence. It could've been by accident. I remember watching a movie called Tremors 2, where the monsters chewed through the car engine and destroyed the communications tower so the main characters couldn't escape or call for help. It turned out that the monsters were blind and deaf, they hunted by sensing heat. They must've mistaken the engine and the tower for food and in the words of one of the characters, "they were acting so smart because they were so damn stupid". Perhaps the Aliens eat wiring and other technologies. They are partly silicon-based and they had to have eaten something to grow to their full size. Anyway, perhaps asking if their sentient was a bad question because sentience is so hard to define. But how smart is the Queen? Is she smarter than a dolphin? What about a chimp? Apes can be taught basic symbolic languages so if an Alien Queen is smarter than the lot of them, she may be considered sentient, although not AS sentient as a human.
	Last edited by Extrocomp; 03-08-2006 at 12:56 AM..

03-07-2006, 05:35 PM	#2
SM Network Interface 2037 Epic Poster Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Network Interface 2037, WY Melbourne Posts: 15,284	Depends on how you'd define sentience I suppose. Off the top of my head I think their most intelligent would be setting the trap for Elgyn, but beyond that it's more highly evolved predatory instinct. Even the Queen. O'Bannon originally said that Aliens were beings that lived for a couple of centuries, and became highly intelligent, cultural and artistic once they grew out of their bloodsoaked early life.

03-07-2006, 10:17 PM	#3
Extrocomp Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 168	The Queen has done other intelligent things. The scene where Ripley first meets Queen comes to mind. After Ripley burns an egg several warriors come after her, but after Ripley points her flamethrower at the other eggs, the Queen understands that Ripley is holding her eggs hostage and decides that the best course of action would be to make the warriors withdraw, rather than the obvious thing to do, which is for the warriors to pounce on Ripley before she can fire. Then the Queen uses an elevator to escape the colony and boards the dropship. This may mean that she realizes the colony is going to blow or she could've just wanted revenge against Ripley. The fact that she carries a Queen Egg with her means that she anticipated that she may not survive the upcoming battle. Then there's the issue of why Ripley 8 has memories of being Ellen Ripley. Her DNA was mixed with the Queen's, which includes genetic memory. However, her memories are Ripley's and not the Queen's, which means the original Queen embryo must've incorporated Ripley's memories into its own DNA. And I can think of no other purpose for that except to understand the mind of her prey in detail.

03-08-2006, 12:28 AM	#4
SM Network Interface 2037 Epic Poster Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Network Interface 2037, WY Melbourne Posts: 15,284	The things you've described could still be down to basic animal instinct. Animals can be trained to do certain things; Aliens simply learn for themselves much quicker. Like Ash said, most animals retreat from fire. Queenie knows fire = bad. Something else just sprung to mind - cutting the power to Ops (if it was indeed deliberate, and I think it was). It's a natural progression from Aliens generally attacking from the shadows because they know their prey don't see too good in the dark, and are therefore at a disadvantage. It could've very well been planning to attack Ripley, Parker and Brett in the dark by knocking out 12 module which Parker and Brett claim to have fixed.

03-08-2006, 03:19 PM	#7
[AVPW]Corpral Hic AvPNews Webmaster Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,005	Wasnt it something to do with original pyramid concept?

03-09-2006, 01:52 AM	#9
[AVPW]Corpral Hic AvPNews Webmaster Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,005	I'm with SM. I think the idea was to show that the Aliens had intelligence by cutting the power. Same goes for the Queen later.

03-09-2006, 08:06 AM	#10
azimaith Miller: The Ultimate Badass. Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii Posts: 3,664	I'd take sentience as being self aware, which I think aliens are, but only in the absence of the queen. As for cutting the power, we've been over this a million times. First off, the aliens were moving through the ceiling where the wiring was. You move 20 spiky clawed bodies through a wire filled area you may amazingly cause some damage. Second, the power generator IE, the reactor, was on its way to going critical. It would make sense for the power to go out. And finally, the most important thing to remember is that all the power went out in the entire area, for the aliens to cut the power to several corridors/rooms they would need to sever a myriad of connections (and survive the voltage flowing through them) to get this to work. No, evidence points to the reactor failure causing the power to fail. Are aliens intelligent to a degree? Yes. Are aliens born with a degree in electrical engineering. Hell no.

03-09-2006, 07:24 PM	#13
azimaith Miller: The Ultimate Badass. Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii Posts: 3,664	I personally ascribe to the theory that it was a distraction. You don't see more than 1 body in that corridor, all you hear is screeching and then some flashes of a couple aliens biting the dust. While some aliens did this the rest crept through the ceiling and surrounded the marines who were too busy watching the ammo counters go. After all, if the guns hadn't gone off, the marines probably wouldn't have just assumed they got through the barricades and started welding up the doors. Instead they would know they bypassed it completely, meaning that the aliens are definately coming through some place they didn't expect. But thats just me.

03-13-2006, 10:19 AM	#14
Daemos GOD OF F*CK Godlike Poster Join Date: May 2001 Location: Judecca Posts: 23,076	Of course they are! I think their capacity to learn is extremely high. @SM O'Bannon's "theory" is a conclusion I actually reached on my own based on what I saw in the movies to be honest.

03-17-2006, 09:58 AM	#16
Sector70599 Soon it will all be over.... Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,366	All I know is that they are capable of adapting to virtually any environment.

03-20-2006, 10:41 AM	#17
J A Eyers Better ban'd than bland Godlike Poster Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Southend, England Posts: 25,181	Moving to BCT.

03-21-2006, 11:35 PM	#19
Kratos Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 289	Actions such as calling off the attack on Ripley after Ripley threatens the eggs show that the Queen is very intelligent and is able to understand actions and their consequences without having had the benefit of being in that situation before - So we can't blame her actions on conditioning. And I'll get disagreement on this, but I also believe that the Queen followed Ripley to the extent she did for revenge. Why take that exact route and follow Ripley so far instead of relocating to a safer spot and reestablishing the nest while the other adults took care of Ripley? Sorry but to me, the Queen's actions point STRAIGHT at her being fully sentient. Very few of her actions make any sense otherwise.

03-22-2006, 12:39 AM	#20
SM Network Interface 2037 Epic Poster Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Network Interface 2037, WY Melbourne Posts: 15,284	I buy the revenge thing (you could argue she knew the AP Station was going to go up - but if she did why didn't bug out a LOT earlier?), but I don't buy she was smart enough to work the elevator, as some people argue. The elevators default position was dock 7 where Bishop landed the dropship. I reckon she was just along for the ride in the second lift that Ripley called.

03-22-2006, 02:23 AM	#21
Kratos Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 289	Yeah, I don't figure she was working the elevator either. Don't get me wrong, I think she would be fully capable of using the elevator, but only after playing with one or seeing it used.

03-24-2006, 06:43 AM	#22
Bender Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 215	Of course they are sentient. Duh. The bug in the first movie knew enough to get into the Narcissus ahead of Ripley. The bugs in Aliens knew enough to use the false ceiling rather than battering their way through the walls. Regarding cutting the power, one interesting suggestion is that not only might they have cut the power but they might do it regularly. Newt says they hunt at night. They must do that because they have an advantage at night and they might easily have realised that electricity negates that advantage. They wouldn't need to turn the generator on and off. It's standard for that sort of thing to have self-resetting trips. It'd be easy for them to find out that dunking a bare cable in a pool of water would make the base go dark for an hour. Moving on, in A3 the bug managed to take out a bunch of key figures with ruthless efficiency. In AR the bug learns to be docile to avoid the chiller as well as zapping Elgyn In AvP Grid is not only intelligent but he's innovative, sneaky and resourceful. As for the difference between animal-cunning and "sentience", you could argue about that forever. It's kinda context specific. I mean, I'm sure an enlightened alien might suggest that our behaviour, polluting our environment, killing each other and working for money, isn't sentient behaviour. I can vouch for what SM says about the bugs being a cultured species too. It was suggested that the bug is supposed to be scared, lonely and ignorant. Maybe they're supposed to be part of some elite royal guard on their home planet but all the ones we've ever seen have either been from the Derelict or slaves for the Preds. The ones we've seen are the equivalents of cave-men or the humans in Planet of the Apes.

03-24-2006, 12:06 PM	#23
Kratos Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 289	Using the bugs from A:R as an example is a poor choice since they weren't purely alien.

03-24-2006, 02:43 PM	#25
Kratos Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 289	It is a very good reason to not use the aliens in A:R as examples of the race as a whole. They were not the aliens from the previous movies, they were genetically more human to the point that psychological and physical changes occurred as a result. Psychologically it was hinted that they had much more human thought processes. The first time we see this is when the trio of aliens escape from their cage. One of the aliens appears to 'argue' with the other two, apparently about their choice of which to kill in order to escape. His thrashing and screaming as he died could be interpreted as an attempt to fight back or fight off the other two. The second indication of this is, after their escape, the two escaped aliens wait and draw the scientist who had captured them and caused them pain into the cage, and then kill him, rather than running to immediately free the rest of the captive aliens. Another example is the way one alien chose to dispose of the guard who entered his cell. Rather than merely encapacitating the guard as a host or killing him for food, the alien uses the same device that had caused it pain. Yet another example lies in the traps set by the aliens throughout the film. Elgyn and the gun being the best example. The gun had obviously been placed there to draw a human within striking distance of the alien that placed it. The aliens also 'herded' the crew of the Betty and Ripley towards a room full of eggs. None of these are actions that are ever observed in the other movies. The physical changes included a softer, fleshier appearance and an apparent weakness of the 'exoskeleton', the shortening of the head providing an even more human appearance, a change in coloration, and other small physical changes. The aliens of A:R were so far removed from the aliens of previous movies that using them to draw conclusions on the race as a whole would be like using A:R Ripley to draw conclusions about the human race.

03-26-2006, 06:11 PM	#29
Kratos Registered User Forum Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 289	It just bugs me that so many people use examples from A:R when talking about the species as a whole and conveniently forget that the aliens in A:R are fundamentally different from the ones in the previous movies both mentally and physically. Pet peeve. I think that the aliens are as sentient and intelligent as they feel they need to be.

03-26-2006, 09:01 PM	#30
SM Network Interface 2037 Epic Poster Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Network Interface 2037, WY Melbourne Posts: 15,284	I don't generally regard the Auriga Aliens as being much different, personally. The Queen certainly but not the adults as such.