God I Love Obama! The Lord Has Opened My Eyes To The Truth!!!

[madbomber1998]

Praise the Lord! The savior has come and shown us the way!


Obama's 'no income taxes on seniors' draws critics

By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer Tue Aug 12, 4:56 AM ET

WASHINGTON - If you're a senior citizen and make less than $50,000 a year, Barack Obama has a deal for you: the rest of your life free of federal income tax.

Sounds appealing, right? Maybe to many seniors. But tax policy experts in Washington are giving it bad reviews. They see it as another subsidy for senior citizens, who already get federal help through Social Security and Medicare and often have economic advantages over other demographic groups.

Seniors typically have paid off their mortgages. Many have investments and usually don't pay taxes on their Social Security benefits. The kids are usually grown, so they're not saddled with day care or college costs.

"The odds are the retired folks — they're getting pensions, they're getting Social Security, they have investment assets, they own a house — so ... they're better off than somebody who is 30 or 40 years younger who's trying to buy a house (and) trying to start saving," said Clint Stretch, managing principal of tax policy for Deloitte Tax.

The Obama campaign says the idea would give tax cuts averaging $1,400 to 7 million seniors who are battling inflation with mostly fixed incomes. The campaign also says the plan would relieve millions of older people from having to file complicated tax returns.

"If you work hard and pay into the system, you've earned the right to a secure retirement," says a description of the plan on the Obama campaign's Web site. "But too many seniors aren't getting that security, even though they've held up their end of the bargain. Lower- and middle-income seniors are struggling as their expenses on health and energy skyrocket while their incomes do not keep pace."

Some of Obama's allies in Washington think he's onto a bad idea.

"Most low- and moderate-income seniors already owe no income tax. Among seniors with incomes below $50,000 who do owe income tax, a significant number have modest incomes because they are retired but possess substantial assets," said Robert Greenstein, who heads the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal think tank. "Given all the problems and needs the nation faces, targeting relief to this group isn't a priority."

The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, gave the idea bad grades in a recent study of the two presidential candidates' tax plans.

Seniors already get preferential treatment in the tax code. They get to claim an additional standard deduction and only a portion of their Social Security benefits are taxed. Many don't pay payroll taxes because their income is from investments rather than wages.

"The proposal would exempt comparatively well off, though not affluent, senior citizens from tax and give them a benefit not generally available to working Americans," said the Tax Policy Center paper. It "helps only those low-income seniors who currently pay income taxes. Those too poor to owe any tax — arguably those most in need — would get no benefit."

Even the powerful seniors' lobby AARP doesn't seem excited about Obama's idea. An AARP bulletin on the presidential candidates' tax plans barely mentions it, saying that Obama's proposal could partly offset additional taxes that Obama would impose on seniors through higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains.

Tax experts across the political spectrum also fault the Obama plan's abrupt $50,000-a-year threshold. As described by the campaign, seniors making, say, $48,000 would pay no income tax, while someone with income slightly more than $50,000 could pay several thousand dollars in income taxes. Seniors nearing the $50,000 threshold would have incentive to quit working.

Congress likely would add a phaseout, according to tax experts. "Everyone knows there would never be this $50,000 cliff," said Ben Harris, a senior research associate at Brookings.

The proposed new tax break for seniors is one of about a dozen tax changes proposed by Obama, including raising rates on people making more than $250,000 a year; extending most of the rest of President Bush's tax cuts; subsidizing Social Security and payroll taxes for low-income workers; and boosting income and child care tax credits for low-income workers.

[CtrlAltDel]

Sweet Jesus

Tax the people that are costing us the most to keep alive please.

[Hamz]

hey maybe this'll get him McCain's vote.

[nVidiot_Whore]

That's... kind of dumb.

[madbomber1998]

yea, I know

even Obama's LIBERAL friends are saying this is a bad idea

[J A Eyers]

Originally Posted by madbomber1998

even Obama's LIBERAL friends are saying this is a bad idea

Of course they are! They are pro-tax! They want everyone to pay higher taxes!

Obama's tax cutting plans are fiscally conservative. That you're criticising them shows you in your truest colours. If this was McCain's idea - or even if this was Ron Paul's idea - you'd be all over it like a fly on poop.

[StrangeWill]

Originally Posted by J A Eyers

Of course they are! They are pro-tax! They want everyone to pay higher taxes!

Obama's tax cutting plans are fiscally conservative. That you're criticising them shows you in your truest colours. If this was McCain's idea - or even if this was Ron Paul's idea - you'd be all over it like a fly on poop.

^this.

Originally Posted by madbomber1998

yea, I know

even Obama's LIBERAL friends are saying this is a bad idea

Obama's plans aren't liberal enough for my liberal side, but knowing the state of the country other things come first.

[madbomber1998]

no one I've heard of yet has liked the plan - even hardcore conservatives.

Except for a couple of wealthy retired people.

this would be good for my dad and mom BTW. and I still don't believe in it.

[J A Eyers]

So... you think it's a good idea they pay more tax?

Of course hardcore conservatives aren't going to think it's a good idea. It's an Obama policy! Even if he said "I think every household in America should have a gun" they would find grounds to complain an Obama government's going to force people to have guns.

[BorderCollie-san]

madbomber aren't you one of those nutjobs who thinks the IRS is unconstitutional

[magistyk]

Psh, who pays taxes anyway.

[Glexn]

Works for me. My grandmother is 68, and works two jobs to pay her rent, and pays a third of her wage in tax on one job, and half her wage in tax on the second. I'm sure there are plenty of other people out there in similar situations. She gets a widow's pension from the government, but that's all she's eligible for. Personally, I don't think she and people like her should be taxed so high.

And what's the point of taxing old folk's pensions anyway? Pretty stupid waste of time and effort. The government gives them money, then immediately takes some of it away. Why give them the taxed amount in the first place?

Originally Posted by BorderCollie-san

madbomber aren't you one of those nutjobs who thinks the IRS is unconstitutional

I remember seeing interviews with IRS people somewhere that said they could find no law that said Americans had to pay income tax. They're just told to.

[madbomber1998]

Originally Posted by J A Eyers

So... you think it's a good idea they pay more tax?

Of course hardcore conservatives aren't going to think it's a good idea. It's an Obama policy! Even if he said "I think every household in America should have a gun" they would find grounds to complain an Obama government's going to force people to have guns.

No, I don't like paying taxes. I don't agree with massive taxes. But this law is utterly rediculous and stupid and won't work.

[madbomber1998]

Originally Posted by BorderCollie-san

madbomber aren't you one of those nutjobs who thinks the IRS is unconstitutional

Yes, I believe it is. You find me one law, ANYWHERE, that says I HAVE to pay an income tax.

See, the IRS is like the mafia, running a big racketeering and organized crime gig. If you don't pay your taxes, a SWAT team busts your door down, they arrest you, smear your name, put in you jail, then put you on trial for years; if you don't have the money to pay for GOOD legal defense - the kind that would beat the government - you lose. So most of the people in the know still pay taxes - and most people think you HAVE to pay them.

Seriously, go and find me a law that says I HAVE to pay my income taxes....


Also....The only place 'Income' has ever been defined statutorily, is the Supreme Court, just prior to the 16th amendment.

At that point the Supreme Court defined it as 'Profit separated from Capitol' 'In which no other definition applies', and specifically, the court case was based on a Federally Privileged activity, a Railroad specifically.

This is the 'income' in which the 16th amendment was created to manage.

[madbomber1998]

Here. Here are a bunch of videos that will greatly educate you on this subject. Ranging from interviews with the director of the IRS to ex-IRS agents to jurors on tax evasion cases.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX-03...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aroN2...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu0iSxAKxT0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jqLximBZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1r1h...eature=related

[madbomber1998]

Also, I couldn't resist this....here's a video clip of Ron Paul talking about the unconstitutional income tax - realize that this is now a US Senator who is talking about this....

Ron Paul on CNBC 2004 - UnConstitutional Income Tax

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:-)

[madbomber1998]

And THIS one is a must see!!

Funded and approved by the US Department of Treasury in 1943 - it was approved by the Treasury Secretary, received an Academy Award for 'Best Documentary Feature' - and President Roosevelt himself picked out Donald Duck to be the main character.

The Income Tax: WWII Disney Propaganda

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[BorderCollie-san]

Originally Posted by madbomber1998

Yes, I believe it is. You find me one law, ANYWHERE, that says I HAVE to pay an income tax.

The Internal Revenue Code?

[Damien Stryker]

Jesus, Madbomber. Why are you bitching about taxes? Aren't you the guy who lives in the (comparatively) big, fancy house with all those guns?

[StrangeWill]

Originally Posted by Damien Stryker

Jesus, Madbomber. Why are you bitching about taxes? Aren't you the guy who lives in the (comparatively) big, fancy house with all those guns?

When you have relatively little to complain about, you find something.

[madbomber1998]

Originally Posted by BorderCollie-san

The Internal Revenue Code?

BC, you're training to be....what....a lawyer?

The Internal Revenue Code is not a law. Show me a LAW that says I HAVE to pay income tax.

Seriously.

The IRS can't do it.

Judges can't do it.

The police can't do it.

The FBI can't do it.

Congress can't do it.

And I bet you can't do it. Mr. Lawyer.

[madbomber1998]

Originally Posted by Damien Stryker

Jesus, Madbomber. Why are you bitching about taxes? Aren't you the guy who lives in the (comparatively) big, fancy house with all those guns?

Because I'd rather have a bigger house and more guns. Or maybe do something cool with the money like give it to people who need it. Or maybe fund this charity organization I want to start so I can help even more people.

Here's the point - if you DON'T have to pay income tax - doesn't that mean the government is ripping you off and lying to you? Wouldn't you want to know that? Wouldn't you care?

[Lawbringer122]

Originally Posted by madbomber1998

Because I'd rather have a bigger house and more guns. Or maybe do something cool with the money like give it to people who need it. Or maybe fund this charity organization I want to start so I can help even more people.

You could easily do all that with the money you have.

[J A Eyers]

Yes, I love it how people with lots of money use tax as an excuse for why they don't do anything charitable. "Well, I woullllld, but..."

And here's your income tax law, MB: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." It's called the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution - the same Constitution you run to for protection of your guns. You can't rightly claim its above legal wrangling when it suits you but then claim it doesn't apply to you when it doesn't suit. The Amendment has been ratified by 42 states according to Wikipedia, which is well over the minimum number for it to be passed into Constitutional law.

[madbomber1998]

Originally Posted by Lawbringer122

You could easily do all that with the money you have.

And I do :-)

Originally Posted by J A Eyers

Yes, I love it how people with lots of money use tax as an excuse for why they don't do anything charitable. "Well, I woullllld, but..."

I give at least 10% of my income to good causes already :-)

Originally Posted by J A Eyers

And here's your income tax law, MB: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." It's called the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution - the same Constitution you run to for protection of your guns. You can't rightly claim its above legal wrangling when it suits you but then claim it doesn't apply to you when it doesn't suit. The Amendment has been ratified by 42 states according to Wikipedia, which is well over the minimum number for it to be passed into Constitutional law.

Ahhh, but here's where it gets interesting. And I AM running to my constitution to claim that the current income tax setup is illegal / unconstitutional.

It says that CONGRESS has the POWER to collect taxes - now show me a piece of legislature - a LAW - that CONGRESS PASSED - that says I have to pay income tax.

In addition - what is the official Federal Government's definition of 'incomes'?

[madbomber1998]

Also, I take it that none of your guys watched all those videos I posted ;-)

[Nova]

Originally Posted by Damien Stryker

Jesus, Madbomber. Why are you bitching about taxes? Aren't you the guy who lives in the (comparatively) big, fancy house with all those guns?

And the guy who quadruple posts in his own thread.

[Salvage Guy]

And arbitrarily 'sticky'ing everything that doesn't interest the majority of the forum. Barely even the minority.

[BorderCollie-san]

Originally Posted by madbomber1998

BC, you're training to be....what....a lawyer?

The Internal Revenue Code is not a law. Show me a LAW that says I HAVE to pay income tax.

Why isn't the Internal Revenue Code, which is Title 26 of the US Code, a law?

I should point out to others that his reply and my subsequent responses are going to constitute a very good example of why nobody should pay any attention to madbomber economics.

Originally Posted by madbomber1998

Also, I couldn't resist this....here's a video clip of Ron Paul talking about the unconstitutional income tax - realize that this is now a US Senator who is talking about this....

Ron Paul is not a Senator.

[madbomber1998]

Originally Posted by BorderCollie-san

Why isn't the Internal Revenue Code, which is Title 26 of the US Code, a law?

I DARE you to contact the IRS and ask them to provide you with a LAW that REQUIRES you to pay income tax.

Also - I said this above - find out what the definition - that the Federal government has to use - for 'income' is. Look for the Supreme Court rulings, not the lower court rulings. They are different.