The Hobbit without Jackson

[Salvage Guy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6167972.stm

Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson has been told he will not be employed on The Hobbit, the next film adaptation of a JRR Tolkien novel.

New Line Cinema, with whom he has been in dispute about income from the first Rings film, was not using him, he said.

Jackson had refused to discuss a Hobbit film until the case was settled but New Line said it now wanted to move on as it had "limited time" to make the film.

Way I see it, New Line have shot themselves in the foot if they think the appropriate cast will return without PJ at the helm.

[nemarsde]

There's no cast to return, except Sir Ian McKellan.

Still, I've always thought making The Hobbit into one film would be much much more of challenge than making The LOTR into three films.

Shame that New Line Cinema have fallen out with PJ, and over money too. As if the franchise didn't make them both enough of it! In the audio commentaries they always spoke very highly of their working relationship.

[nemarsde]

Double post.

[Injektilo]

Originally posted by nemarsde
There's no cast to return, except Sir Ian McKellan.

Holm?

[Salvage Guy]

Andy Serkis? And Hugo Weaving? I think Elrond's in The Hobbit at some point aswell, no?

[Injektilo]

Weaving?

Damn you Salvage.

[Salvage Guy]

Maahuuwawah!

[nemarsde]

Forgot about Serkis as Gollum. As for Elrond, I remember the party stayed at Rivendell and Elrond's mentioned, but did Elrond actually put in an appearance? That I can't remember. Thing is, in The Hobbit nothing actually happens at Rivendell, iirc.

Um, you're probably right though, if the film has a scene at Rivendell, you'd have to write in at least a cameo for Weaving.

You'd have to get a younger actor to play Bilbo, imo. The hobbit would be doing much more of his own stunt work in this film, since the actors could be filmed at natural scale, assuming you have a short actor playing Bilbo and tallish actors playing the dwarves. (And Tall Paul as Gandalf in the background. )

[MacCabbe]

That aint Elrond, but Legolas' father. The king of the Mirkwood elves.

Thing is, I much prefer the Hobbit to be done without Jackson than with him.

[nemarsde]

Nah, it's Thranduil in Mirkwood. Elrond's in Rivendell.

But anyway, I think the film could work without PJ directing, but it absolutely won't work without Weta.

[Injektilo]

Absolutely. Be great to see them do Smaug.

[Vega]

Pretty dumb move on the part of New Line.

[nemarsde]

Hey hey, check out that linked story.

This isn't just The Hobbit film adaptation they're talking about but a second prequel.

A second prequel? An original screenplay? Not based on a Tolkien work? I think New Line could be treading on dangerous ground here, with or without PJ.

[Salvage Guy]

I heard from random research that they were planning on making The Hobbit in 2 parts. Related?

[Neon]

Last i heard, they were planning to do two films. The first was a close adaptation of the Hobbit, the 2nd prequal based off notes left by Tolkien that would link the Hobbit and Trilogy together.

[SM]

Holm?

They had to effectively pin back Holm's skin in the Fellowship prologue to make him look younger. Can't imagine they'd do it for a whole film.

Anyway it's disappointing, but as Nemarsde said, my immediate thought was if they go with Weta for the effects. Don't know whether the fact that Jackson is a co-owner of Weta affect that.

[Cutter Zane]

Originally posted by nemarsde
Forgot about Serkis as Gollum. As for Elrond, I remember the party stayed at Rivendell and Elrond's mentioned, but did Elrond actually put in an appearance? That I can't remember. Thing is, in The Hobbit nothing actually happens at Rivendell, iirc.

Elrond does appear in the book. He helps the dwarves decipher their map of the Lonely Mountain with its hidden scripts (only visible under moonlight, like the West Gate of Moria).

[Injektilo]

Originally posted by SM
They had to effectively pin back Holm's skin in the Fellowship prologue to make him look younger. Can't imagine they'd do it for a whole film.

They digitally made McKellen and Stewart 20-30 years younger in X3 to decent effect. With a good stunt double, Holm still would be my first choice.

[SM]

Yeah dunno.

He's getting on a bit is Sir Ian. Not that it's had any affect on his talent or ability, but you'd have to go to an awful lot of trouble with make-up and CGI.

Off topic - I just found out he was married to Shaun's mum out of Shaun of the Dead.

[Injektilo]

Motherfucker.

[Chris]

To be honest, would they really have to make Gandalf look younger for The Hobbit? The dude is just OLD peroid, may as well leave him as-is.

[nemarsde]

Aye, but I think the question's about whether Sir Ian Holm could play Bilbo, not whether Sir Ian McKellan could play Gandalf. (Too many Sir Ian's around here for my liking.)

[Salvage Guy]

Got something against Syrians?


[size=0.5]that would sound better[/size]


I would agree they haven't much to worry about in Gandalf or Gollum obviously and maybe not even Elrond (how are Weaving's wrinkles coming along?). Have to take into account that Holm would be in his late 70s by the time The Hobbit would be made. Bilbo's supposed to be 51 when he joins Gandalf for the first time.

[SM]

Syrians... don't know whether to or

I'll go with

...this time.

The age of Bilbo in the book really isn't an issue with whats been estbalished in the existing flicks - Bilbo just has to look younger than he did in FOTR.

Motherfucker.

Or indeed, 'fuck-a-doodle-do'.

[Conner Macleod]

I didn't like the actor who portrayed Bilbo in LOTR. He was fine in 'The Fifth Element' but he was all wrong for the part of Bilbo, too old and cranky. Bilbo is the anti-thesis of that actor's demeanor; he can't pull off the sweet and lovable act needed to capture Bilbo's essence.

As for Jackson, it should be just fine without him. Even though I enjoy LOTR, there was a little too much CGI for my liking. I think they should go back to the old school methods like they did in the original Star Wars films, more animatronics, make up, props and prosthetics. Some CGI will be necessary of course, but it shouldn't be the crutch of the film.

Anyway, I'll be happy as long as they include a significant portion of the movie dedicated to Bjorn

[nemarsde]

I thought Holm was spot on as the Bilbo who's spent half his life with the Ring. I think he's too old, and perhaps a little too sinister to play the younger Bilbo. (Or maybe I've just watched Alien too many times.)

Let's cast this bitch then.

Gandalf - Sir Ian McKellan
Gollum's voice - Andy Serkis
Elrond - Hugo Weaving

Bilbo Baggins

Thorin Oakenshield - Ralph Fiennes?
Balin - Ray Winstone?
Gloin
Dwalin
Kili
Fili
Bombur

<< These dwarves aren't so important
Nori
Dori
Ori
Oin
Bifur
Bofur
>>

Beorn
Bard - Richard Armitage
Dain Ironfoot

Thranduil Elvenking
Great Goblin
Bolg
Smaug's voice
William the Troll's voice

[Conner Macleod]

Originally posted by nemarsde:
Beorn

I meant Beorn instead of Bjorn, who's my favorite character in 'The Hobbit'. It's pronounced the same in Norwegian, but get this, it literally means bear. Tolkien got most of his info from the norse mythology and language.

Also, as some of you might recall, when Bilbo sings his song to trick the spiders, he repeats the phrase about attercopps, which phonetically is nearly identical to edderkopp, which means spider in Norwegian.

[Salvage Guy]

One of the Sir Ian's ain't happy

[nemarsde]

Originally posted by Conner Macleod
I meant Beorn instead of Bjorn, who's my favorite character in 'The Hobbit'. It's pronounced the same in Norwegian, but get this, it literally means bear. Tolkien got most of his info from the norse mythology and language.

Also, as some of you might recall, when Bilbo sings his song to trick the spiders, he repeats the phrase about attercopps, which phonetically is nearly identical to edderkopp, which means spider in Norwegian.

All makes sense considering Tolkein's plan was to build an Anglo-Saxon mythology (he considered the King Arthur legend to be Norman), which would therefore draw much of its inspiration from Scandinavia. The Elven language, Quenya, was partly based on Finnish.

In Tolkein's works, "Beorn" is pronounced "Bay-orn".

[Yelsent]

That's wrong then.